Wednesday, March 25, 2020
17 comments:
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Hi! I actually thought the Tarot reference was really cool. I wouldn't have noticed it so thanks for pointing it out. Also Aufidius's comparison of Coriolanus to an anvil is really intense. I wonder if Shakespeare was doing something similar to many writers nowadays which is keeping the relationship subtext so his play could be allowed to be distributed. Then again the past's definition of friendship versus relationship was really weird and homoerotic. Even biblically, Coriolanus and Aufidius could be compared as the opposite of Dovid and Yonatan who were friends instead of enemies but also used some very homoerotic language to describe each other. A quote that I think is from Dovid to Yonatan is "Your love is more wonderful to me than the love of women." which can be compared to Aufidius saying the thing about seeing Coriolanus is better than seeing his wife on his wedding night.
ReplyDelete- Deborah Majowka
That is a great comparison — we don’t know for sure what Shakespeare read usually, but certainly he was deeply versed in the Bible, as was the rest of his culture. It certainly is possible that he was hiding things so that he could make money although I think he might not have had to hide too much — the Sonnets are openly queer and they were popular in his lifetime! Renaissance ideas about gay men were not quite the same as our ideas although certainly there were not really openly queer characters on stage too often (although if you are interested in queer renaissance texts I cannot recommend Edward the Second highly enough — there is a movie version from 1991 that is VERY 1991 but pretty fascinating. The play is by Shakespeare’s rival Marlow and is VERY QUEER and AMAZING. Tilda Swinton stars!)
DeleteHi! Writing this a second time, so sorry if I'm missing some stuff. I find the theme of heteronormative actions VS. homoerotic undertones to be more prevalent in Coriolanus because of his relationship with Aufidius. They understand each other better than their own soldiers because of their relationship on the battlefield. Both characters exude ruthless vigor to defeat one another at whatever cost and in the context of war- their traits are considered highly noble(despite the way Aufidius kills him at the end, that was a low ball). Even when Aufidius becomes jealous of Coriolanus "He bears himself more proudlier, even to my person, than I thought he would when first I did embrace him. Yet his nature in that's no changeling, and I must excuse what cannot be amended," he still displays admiration for Coriolanus's character through his exile from Rome(pg 29). - Chloe Zambrano
ReplyDeleteThis is a great point!
DeleteAfter watching these videos and really thinking about the overall sexual tension between C-Dawg & Aufi, I feel, as a woman looking in, these two men are completely comfortable with their masculinity. They understand each other due to being raised to do the same thing, so there's that underlining comparison between them. I'm sure if Shakespeare had decided to make them friends, instead of enemies, they'd be like Bucky and Cap, who thru it all, took care of each other and while *WE* saw it as homoerotic, it's honestly just a good ol' friendship based on trust.
ReplyDeleteI AGREE! I really see a lot of Bucky and Cap in the two characters. What is interesting to me is how in both cases audiences develop queer readings or queer interpretations — there is a lot to say there about what audiences get out of these stories, and to what extent they create what they don’t get, or find or elaborate in the original.
DeleteI am binge-watching all of these videos after a persistent series of hypertension headaches plaguing me these last few weeks. When I think of the relationship between Coriolanus and Aufidius, my mind shifts to this music video Genghis Khan by Miike Snow (where this bond-esque) villain is struggling to kill his nemesis due to personal, inner turmoil. Coriolanus has struggled with intimacy all of his life as a result of his upbringing, and only when he is in battle (especially with Aufidius) is where he receives that intimacy that he craves. Also, when he is in battle and is injured, one gets to see the very few tender moments he has with his mother. I also think that Coriolanus's relationship with Aufidius's men is an interesting one; they are bonded together in this fratricidal brotherhood. (as all the soldiers go bald in an intimate bond gesture). There is a tug of war happening between the intimacy Coriolanus has towards his mother, and the intimacy shared with Aufidius and his men. Ultimately Volumnia's pull changes Coriolanu's heart, but to what avail?
ReplyDeleteI am glad you have joined us! That is a great point about the tender moment with his mom — its also interesting that there is a real continuity with the Coriolanus-Aufidious relationship and the Coriolanus-Soldiers thing. It’s on a spectrum.
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ReplyDeleteHey, how’s it going!
ReplyDeleteJust a heads up, every time I try to post a comment it gets deleted. But no biggie 🤷🏻♀️ Take #5, I’ve seen many loving moments transpire between men on tv shows, movies, books or even IRL. And anytime I witness a close male bonding sesh, I’ve aww in admiration... sometimes even cried. I love to see the flames of a great bromance igniting. I feel like society lead us to believe that it’s unnatural, unmanly, feminine, or gay when men bond in such ways. Unlike most loving bromances... Harold Lee and Kumar, Harry and Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber, Michael and Dwight from The Office, Woody and Buzz Lightyear from Toy Story, Joey and Chandler from Friends, to name a few; Coriolanus and Audifius’ relationship is complicated to say the least. Even as allies, there’s this “alpha male” role that Coriolanus plays and Aufidius doesn’t like taking orders from someone else... becoming enraged and filled with resentment, jealousy and those feelings are easy to let in and possess a person to stoop to low levels cough cough... scar and Coriolanus death!
This is a great list! Sometimes I overdo it imagining queer pairings on shows and movies but its kind of a fun game!
DeleteMore excellent points.
ReplyDeleteIn our society, affection between men is easier to digest through the lens of sports or the military. Brotherly bond etc.
In your earlier video you mentioned how woman can express affection and closeness in a way men cant' (piling into a photobooth and sitting on each other's laps). I wonder though if all affection - especially male to male - is/should be deemed as homo erotic or "kinda gay"?
Should, shouldn't whatever - I know that's not your argument or what you're saying at all. But it does highlight so much of the issue behind toxic masculinity. I'd love to live a world where two men, mostly naked and dripping in sweat, laying on top of each other (i.e. wrestling)isn't necessarily considered homo erotic. But rather, one of many many sources for basic human need of touch, contact and connection - yes, even for two men. Maybe it's sexual, but also, maybe it's not. And either is ok.
Blah blah blah. Not sure that tangent, but I got fired up about something else and sat down to write this, so out it came.!
I agree with you! It’s a bit of a paradox: these things shouldn’t be indicative of gayness but also if they are I want to celebrate it! The best way to put it should be that these things — wrestling, battle, intense male friendship, brotherly bond, sports or military friendships — should simply not be stigmatized whatever they actually are!
DeletePS For those still having trouble. What's happened a couple times on my end is the page refreshes as it's publishing and then gets lost.
ReplyDeleteDamned annoying. I've been typing into a google doc and copy/pasting so I don't have to write the whole thing over.
Yes comments are a little tricky!
DeletePPS Which R&J? (Please say Baz - I may have seen it like 500 times and the soundtrack was on an endless loop for my 7th grade self's angsty life - I will take any excuse to re-watch though).
ReplyDeleteEither which way, yes, I can rent. And if anyone in class wants to but can't afford, please have them email me (feel free to share my email).
Once I get up to the R&J section (slowly getting there) you probably mention the film version you want, so if you do, feel free to ignore this and I'll get there eventually.
Yes the Baz R&J is my preferred text for sure! It might by my favorite Shakespeare movie and I have seen like 70 of them.
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